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Descendants of
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| Ollenburger, Ben C. | ollenburger@hotmail.com |
Our Mysterious CarlWho is our mysterious Carl? Long ago, Ben Ollenburger had stumbled upon a brief reference to one Carl Ollenburger of North Dakota, who had a wife Sophia and sons Conrad, Heinrich and John. Carl died of an accidental gunshot in 1876. The mystery was, who was he, where did he come from? No lineage known seemed to include a "Carl". The mystery deepened when it was noted that, in the Cimbria record, Heinrich and Katharina Ollenborger come to America with a son Johann, yet, who with wife Sophia, and sons Conrad and Heinrich promptly disappear from sight. One can see immediately the similarity in the wife and children's names between these two references. However, the names "Johann" and "Carl" are nothing alike; what's more, "Johann" has a 5-year old brother Karl. Lynda Sangster was the first to raise the question, "what happened to Johann?", and the first to insist that, improbable as it seemed, these were the same two families. Quite recently, material became available that indeed confirms this premise. Johann Ollenborger, son of Heinrich and Katherina, is "Carl Ollenberger" of North Dakota. Below is the sequence of events, via e-mail extractions, that trace the path to the truth.
Subj: Found Heinrich & Katherina! From: Lynda Date: 07/11/97 Dear Friends, Made my Thurs nite trek to LDS library, with specific purpose last nite to locate H & K Ollenburger, and see what the ship record says. I indeed found the Ollenburgers on the Cimbria, Hamburg Shipping Lines, departure from Hamburg August 18, 1875, direct to New York City, as well as about 40 other citizens from the village/area of Mariaupol, Russia. So here is the exact data:
First of all, Heinrich and Catherine came together. There is absolutely no question, the writing is totally legible. The book you're referencing, Retta, was derived from someone's reading and interpreting these very same boat passenger lists, and who knows, maybe their eyes got tired when it came to the elder Heinrich. Hamburg Shipping Line's passenger lists tend to list all the members of a family group together, hence the last name being continued even though there are really two families represented. The abbreviations you see are exactly as they appear on the ship's record, so some educated guessing is required to fill out names. I take "Joh." as "Johann", and is probably Heinrich's eldest child. The age is right to fit, and the listing as shown is also true to Hamburg's practice of defining families. Sophie is his new wife. The ship's log is blurred and illegible on the second half of the age of infant "Heinr."; however, in the far right column on each log page are columns that are used to separate each passenger into one of three age groups: "over 10 years", "10-1 years", and "under the age of 1". The indicater was in the "under 1" column for both children, so I guess them to be twins. Ben, notice that one of them is named "Conrad"? Could that be for Konrad Ollenburger, a grandfather? Isn't speculation fun? But the introduction of Johann, Sophie and twin sons opens a whole new can of worms. What happened to them? And what happened to the daughter Line? Everyone else is somewhat accounted for.... Next time around I will get a picture made of the Cimbria's entire passenger list. These family groups tended to travel together as kin, so other relatives might be on the ship and we haven't noticed yet. Later guys...glad we found 'em, Retta. Now we know! ---lms
Subj: Another Conrad Ollenberger Date: 7/8/98 8:43:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: Retta To: Lynda, Ben CC: Mark, Judy
Which family would this Conrad Ollenberger be related? Conrad Ollenberger and Anna Boese (Bese) Children: 1) John James b) 15 April 1896 Parker, Turner Co., SD 2) Herbert Willard b) 25 Nov 1897 Parker, Turner Co., SD 3) Lillian Marie b) 10 Oct 1899 Harvey, Wells Co., ND 4) Henry Harry b) 25 Mar 1902 Enid, Garfield Co., OK 5) Martha b) 25 July 1904, OK 6) William Cleo b) 19 Dec 1908 Escondido, San Diego Co., CA rmc
Subj: Re: Another Conrad Ollenberger Date: 7/9/98 From: Lynda To: Ben, Retta CC: Mark, Judy Hi, guys, In a message dated 7/9/98 1:53:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ben writes: As a guess, I'd say the other Conrad Ollenberger we know about. He and Anna Elizabeth Seibel Ollenberger were in Harvey in 1900, and they had a son named Heinrich (though I've seen no evidence that Heinrich immigrated to the US). Conceivably, as it were, this Conrad was a son of that Heinrich. But who knows? ++My opinion is that it might be Conrad, son of Johann, son of Johann Heinrich and Catherina Littau Ollenborger. Aren't we still "missing" Johann (and Sophia) from the ship list? They brought with them (twins, by the passenger log) their sons Conrad and Heinrich. When they "disappeared" from Kansas, they had to go somewhere. By reckoning, the boys' DOB is approx 1875. Add 20 years to reach manhood, and you have 1895, one year prior to the birth of first child listed. I like especially how Retta's Conrad and family bounced around to all known "Ollenburger haunts", including OK, where Heinrich and Catherina lived. Heinrich the elder died there in 1901, which was just one year before Conrad / Anna's first child born in OK. By 1908 by Retta's data Conrad and crew were in California, another Ollenburger refuge. Be interesting to see how that timing compares with DOD of Catherina (which I don't seem to have). Just my opinion... lms
Subj: Re: Another Conrad Ollenberger Date: 7/10/98 11:15:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: Retta To: Ben, Lynda CC: Mark, Judy Lynda: Aren't we still "missing" Johann (and Sophia) from the ship list? They brought with them (twins, by the passenger log) their sons Conrad and Heinrich. When they "disappeared" from Kansas, they had to go somewhere. By reckoning, the boys' DOB is approx 1875. Add 20 years to reach manhood, and you have 1895, one year prior to the birth of first child listed. Ben: Indeed, all of the above is true. Johann's wife was Sophia, as was Carl's (Sophia Reimche). Johann and Carl had two sons, Conrad and Heinrich--Carl's Conrad was born in 1873, and his Heinrich in 1875. Carl's Heinrich married "Lottie" Seibel, his first cousin and the daughter of Mark's Georg's uncle Rev. Ludwig Seibel. Carl also had a third son, John, born in 1879--the year of Carl's accidental death. rmc: I thought the Harvey text says that Carl dies in 1876 a year after arriving in KS (which would also be 1875 like Johann and Sophia) shortly before the Reimches arrive on the Gellert. Does the Reimche book say 1879? Lynda: I like especially how Retta's Conrad and family bounced around to all known "Ollenburger haunts", including OK, where Heinrich and Catherina lived. Ben: I noticed the same thing! And also that several of these folks (Ollenb-rgers, Reimches, Seibels) started in South Dakota and then moved to NoDak. rmc: Does anyone have ready access to 1880 and 1900 North and South Dakota census records? Amarillo is deficient when it comes to states west of here. I'd like to locate these people in Hutchinson and Turner Co., SD and/or Wells Co.,ND. Ben: Retta, you drew our attention to Carl Ollenberger's mention in the Harvey history. I was struck that, on his death, his parents-in-law (Reimches) travelled to Peabody, KS. Peabody is a good way southeast of Hillsboro, while Council Grove is, as you all know, far northeast of Hillsboro. Just curious. rmc: Yeah, I'm wondering if he is buried there???? Isn't there a cemetery index for Marion Co. somewhere?
Subj: [Fwd: REISWIG-LITTAU] Date: 8/7/99 5:58:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: Judy To: Ben, Mark, Retta, Lynda Thought this might help with the California group. There seem to be over 100 Ollenbergers in the GRANDMA database. For details on the project see: http://www.fresno.edu/affiliation/cmhs/gpc/home.htm There is an index to non-living individuals listed in the GRANDMA records on the Odessa digital library. See: http://pixel.cs.vt.edu/library/gedcom/list/link/grandma3.txt This file contains Ollenbergers as listed below:
I have no Ollenburger ancestry, but let me know if I can help you with the GRANDMA file. Jay Hubert
Judy Waisner wrote: > Our reunion is next year. If you can add anything to our info, please let me know. Check out our website OLLENBURGER.ORG
Subj: Carl Date: 11/14/99 11:19:40 PM Eastern Standard Time From: Ben To: Judy, Lynda, Retta Dear Cousins, It has been awhile since I've heard from you - or written to you, for that matter. I hope you're all well, happy, and busy with good stuff. It's getting to be that really busy time of year. This week (Thursday-Tuesday) I will be in Boston, for a conference, and then it's Thanksgiving. Christmas comes just a minute or two later. Y2K is upon us. Meanwhile, I wanted to report the definitive (let's hope) end of a great mystery: who is Carl? It's just as we suspected. He is definitely Johann, oldest son of Johann Heinrich and Katherina. I sent a message related to this on 8/10/99. There I gave details about Carl's family: wife Sophia Reimche and their three sons, Conrad, Henry, and John. John was born in 1876, the year of Carl's accidental death by gunshot. Today I was looking in the LDS site and found John's birth info. His parents are listed as John Ollenberger and Sophia Reimche. In other words, Carl = Johann. In the Reimche family he was known only as Carl, according to their family book, the Harvey history, and a letter from Adeline Reimche and Lillian Bechthold Palmer. In his own family, he had a brother Karl (my great-grandfather). Lynda was right about this. This means, of course, that Rev. Ludwig Seibel and Johann Carl (son of Johann Heinrich and Katherina Littau) married Reimche sisters. It also means that Johann Heinrich's grandson Henry married Ludwig's daughter, who was his first cousin and apparently also Georg Friedrich Ollenburger's first cousin! The lines are tightening. The info re: John Ollenberger in the LDS site is at: http://www.familysearch.org/Search/IGI/igi_individual_frame.asp?recid=83906115&ldsnn=12 The three sons of Johann (Carl) and Sophia (and some of their offspring) are listed together, under a search for "Oldenburger." They don't show up under "Ollenberger," for some reason. They are also included in the material Judy sent on 8/7/99. Ben
More from Ben: Below I have made a chart to illustrate the relationships I described in my earlier e-mail today. The information comes from the Reimche-Bechthold family book, a letter from Adeline Reimche and Lillian Bechthold Palmer, and the info Judy turned up. The dates in brackets are those supplied by the aforementioned women, which in three cases are a year later than those in Judy's e-mail. Ollenb-rger 1. Carl Ollenb-rger ( d. 1876) m. Sophia Reimche (1854-1944)
2. Conrad Ollenb-rger (1872[3]-1921) 3. John Ollenb-rger (1895[6]-1969) born in Parker 3. Herbert Ollenb-rger (1897[8]-1934) born in Parker 3. Henry Ollenb-rger (1902-1937) born in Enid
2. Henry Ollenb-rger (1875- ) m. Scharlotta (Lottie) Seibel
2. John Ollenb-rger (1876- )
Seibel 1. Rev. Ludwig Seibel (1856-1936) m. Scharlotta Reimche (1856-1914)
2. Scharlotta Seibel (1876- ) m. Henry Ollenb-rger
Now some comments. On our drive back to KC, Mark and I agreed that Carl Ollenb-rger must be the same as Johann Ollenb-rger, who appears on the ship list and in the St. P'burg files as the son of (Johann Heinrich) Ollenb-rger. Our reasoning goes like this. 1. Johann and Carl were probably the same age. We know that Johann was born in 1854 and that Carl's wife was born in 1854. 2. They probably died in the same year (1876). We know that Carl died in that year, and we have no information about Johann after his immigration in 1875. 3. We believe that they both died of an accidental gunshot wound. We know that Carl died that way, and we have family lore that Johann Heinrich's oldest son did so. 4. They both immigrated to Council Grove, in Morris County, KS. 5. Their wives had the same first names. 6. Carl's two older sons had the same first names as Johann's two sons who were with him at immigration. 7. My father told me that Henry Ollenb-rger, Carl's second son, was my grandfather's cousin. That would make Carl the son of Johann Heinrich, and either Johann's brother or, as seems infinitely more like in light of the above, Johann himself. There are two flies in this ointment. First, my father's account had it that it was Heinrich (or Henry) the oldest son of Johann Heinrich who died of gunshot. Second, Johann Heinrich had a younger son named Karl, my great-grandfather. If our reasoning is right, this would make Carl the brother of Karl. I'm prepared to accept Mark's reasoning, similar to Linda's earlier, that one of these was named Johann Karl or perhaps Johann Carl; and that, for whatever reasons, he was known in the Reimche family as Carl. This leaves the matter of my father's account. I'd guess that he was simply mistaken: that he interpreted "Heinrich's (as in Johann Heinrich's) oldest son as Heinrich, Jr. I'm certain my father had no idea that the older Heinrich's true first name was Johann, because my grandfather didn't, and neither did the Zionsbote. So here's what I think happened. Upon arriving from Russia in Kansas, Rev. Ludwig Seibel came upon his widowed sister-in-law, Sophia Reimche Ollenb-rger, and her three sons. He prevailed upon them to move with him and Sophia's sister, Scharlotta Reimche Seibel, to (South) Dakota. Like the rest of the Reimche family, who immigrated in the same year, Sophia and then her sons became MB's. At some point, probably early on, Sophia married Gust Hagen (or Hager?), nine years her senior; he died in 1913. Meanwhile, while still in (South Dakota), Henry Ollenb-rger, second son of Carl and Sophia, married Scharlotta "Lottie" Seibel, the daughter of his uncle Rev. Ludwig. Their marriage probably took place shortly after the community had been visited by a relative from Russia, Georg Friedrich Ollenb-rger, whose father had married Rev. Ludwig's sister. Then we met in Hillsboro and ate sausage. Ben C. Ollenburger
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